Ok, You Win. I'm Delusional.

There has been something of a debate on a Facebook polyamory group following the posting of my piece for Polytical. I am surprisingly surprised by this. I was reminded by Hermit that polyamory is not known for being theologically friendly. This makes me sad :( Why is it thus?

More to the point, why does yet another atheist decide to tell me all the ways in which I am doing my religion wrong? Seriously, I get enough of that from people who actually believe in the same god as me. I'm not knocking his beliefs. I don't know the guy, I haven't had his life, I don't understand his world view. I have no right to tell him he's wrong. On the same coin though, he has no right to tell me I'm wrong. I wasn't trying to convert anyone with my post, I wasn't even saying that this is the right way of doing either Christianity or polyamory. I was saying that it is my way. I feel totally unable to defend myself. I don't want to out myself by claming authorship on the Facebook group, and the two people attacking my views are probably more familiar with the Bible than I am. For all my Christianity...the Bible and I have a tough relationship. I have no sound theological argument upon which to base my defence other than I love my God, and my God loves me. Luckily, this is why I am with a theological scholar. Hermit has posted a better defence than I could ever come up with...

Seriously though, why are so many people who are, by definition, open-minded enough to cope with, seek-out and thrive upon multiple relationships unable to cope with other people's declarations of faith? It feels like a red rag to a bull. State you have a religion other than paganism on a poly forum or group and someone will jump on you from a great height. On the other hand, there have been more people defending my views or even thanking them for me than telling me I'm delusional, which is pretty cool :D Maybe I'm over-exaggerating the issue. It just feels that way sometimes.

Moving for your Poly Family

First off, I have a post up on Polytical! It's discussing in more depth why my polyamorous lifestyle is not at odds with my Christianity, and you can click here to check it out. I like Polytical. I like what it does, I like the variety of authors and I find it an easy to navigate site. If they'll have me, I'd like to do some more work for them. I will keep you posted :)

One of the reasons I didn't have a post up yesterday is because I got some wonderful, and somewhat unexpected news. Brown University would like to interview me!  I applied there for a PhD place at the beginning of the year. I wasn't really expecting to hear from them, but I have! They're interested! Can you tell I'm excited?! I'm going up later in the month to meet the faculty, have my interview and see some of the city. Aside from a lot of congratulations and excitement, this has prompted a lot of conversation between myself, Hermit, and Minx. And an argument. And more conversation. The argument is still quietly happening and it's actually more about my reluctance to talk when I'm tired than anything else. The conversation is about a huuuge question. Do we move?

Brown is in Providence, RI. We are currently in Washington, DC. Hermit and Minx both have jobs there that they would be happy keeping past August. The little one is at school here. We have a church, we know the area and we're comfortable if not happy here. If I get offered a place at either Maryland or Hopkins, the other two schools I've applied to, should we not just write Brown off and stay close to where we are? I had been assuming (because I'm an idiot) that both Minx and Hermit would much prefer to stay in the DC area. Apparently, this is not the case. Staying in DC has it's advantages. Then again, so does moving. It would be further away from Minx's family which is increasingly a positive, the cost of living is low, Providence gets snow and it's closer to a best friend. There is also at least one kindergarden that has a Spanish immersion programme, which is important for the child. As far as I'm concerned, Brown is an excellent school and the programme I'm applying to looks fantastic. I am very excited about going up there and seeing if it's as great as it feels.

Is it worth moving for though? I've half been hoping that they rejected me outright because then it wouldn't hurt if I had to go elsewhere. Now...now I'm excited. Thrilled. Amazed that an Ivy League wants to interview me. Very excited about the possibility of moving. And feeling so loved that my poly family will incorporate my dreams into their plans so that we can stay together. A year ago, life was bittersweet. I'd found a man I loved more than I thought I could...but he was leaving my country in April and I didn't know if I'd ever see him again. Now we are in the same city, I'm in a wonderful relationship with his wife and we are all contemplating where we should move to for my schooling. Life's a funny thing.

I Wanna Take You to a Gay Bar...

Well, not really. I was just thinking of an appropriate title for today's post and this song popped into my head. It has a slightly disturbing video, but made me giggle.

Anyway, the reason for this musing is that on Friday, we all went to a gay bar. Minx and I are obviously down with the ladies. We like the boobs. Hermit has, in the past few weeks, come to the realisation that he's pretty cool with men too. Well, not 'cool' as such. More 'finds some disturbingly attractive for a man who identifies as straight'. Here's his take on it, for those who are interested. Once he'd got over the initial OMGWTF, and the secondary SRSLYOMGWTF, one of us (can't remember who) suggested going to a bar so he could look at pretty men and potentially do some flirting. And so Minx and I could be the raging lesbians we secretly are. Seriously though, she and I had never really gone out as a couple, so we had a really fun time. Even though it was open to both genders, the vast majority of the crowd were men. Which was slightly odd and a little intimidating, but hey! I was there with my girlfriend and boyfriend, so it was all good :D Plus the doorman told me I have a nice smile as we walked in, which gave me a bit of a boost. Minx and I spent most of the evening cuddling and flirting, and watching people. One of the guys on the table behind us kept staring which was kind of odd. Being in a gay bar, you wouldn't have thought girl-on-girl would have drawn that much of attention.

Hermit, unfortunately, did not find anyone to flirt with :( It appeared to be more of a place you go to with people, rather than a place you go to to meet people. Which was sad. But he said there were only a couple of guys he found attractive there anyway, and they were with a group so ho hum. He is concerned that, being 31, he'd missed the boat for fnding a man. I don't think that this is the case but having gone to a gay bar and had no-one pay him any attention, he's still a bit concerned. He's going to keep looking, and we're going to keep being supportive! It's not like any of us even have time for another partner, but I know he'd like someone to go on a couple of dates with at least. So if anyone knows any cute bi/gay, poly, Christian guys in the DC area, give us a shout...

Assumptions Make the World Go Round

I was reading a forum discussion last week about polyamory and spiritual/religious practices. I was mainly reading it for something to do – the discussion was a few years old and I didn't want to resurrect it, but one post caught my eye. This person stated that, by definition, a practising Christian

would be against polyamory as it is a sin against God and man.

All practising Christians are against polyamory.

Hi, I'm Isobel. I'm a polyamorous, practising Christian.

I'm also a woman. As a woman, I enjoy knitting, the company of small children, baking, wearing make-up, reading the gossip columns in glossy magazines and watching reality tv. (Two of those are correct)

I'm exaggerating the point. The original comment on the forum thread wasn't inflammatory, or insulting and I have taken it entirely out of context.

It does still raise a valid point for me. People tend to assume that Christians will not be open to or accepting of polyamory. I do it to! I met a young woman today who seemed nice, and we were chatting. I referred to my boyfriend and girlfriend as 'friends'. I often do this with strangers as we're closeted, but I was even more cautious about this woman as we had previously been talking about what churches we attend. I, a polyamorous Christian, was assuming that another Christian would have a problem with my lifestyle.

Why did I do that?

My best answer is because I've had...issues in the past with other Christians making incorrect, hurtful assumptions about me because I happen to form multiple romantic attachments. Yet, I do know better. We're not all like that. Both of my partners are Christian. My ex-girlfriend is Christian. I have Christian friends who have no problem with my lifestyle.

I guess the trick here is just to keep standing up and declaring my faith, my loves, and the compatibility of both. And maybe being a little less judgemental myself.

Moderate Atheists?

Moderate Atheists.
I know some exist. I am personally acquainted with a few of them :) The internet, however, appears to be full of the other, extremist variety.

Let me make it clear now. I have no issue or problem with atheism. If you don't believe in God or any of Her (many) permutations, that's cool. I will even engage with you in reasonable discussion (note: discussion not screaming argument) on the merits of our separate world views.
I wish also to acknowledge that other religious types don't always cover themselves in glory. Telling atheists that they're going to go to hell, or screaming about damnation or the sanctity of marriage or whatever is also not a reasonable discussion. Indeed, when I read things like this I wonder exactly where Jesus and God are in these people's lives. That scares me far more than hardline atheism. 


That being said, the internet atheists are often unwilling to discuss anything. It's hard to have a reasonable discussion with someone who's main argument is that you believe in 'fairy stories' or declare that they despise all religion. Really? That's your idea of an adult discussion? Finding the other person's views so utterly threatening that you do the cyber equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming at the top of your lungs? This discussion is not one where we are ever going to persuade each other of the truth of our personal beliefs. It just isn't. I accept that. I'd like for you, hypothetical atheist, to do the same so we can learn more about each other rather than engage in a mud-slinging contest.


For the record, though, you will always win. No, I cannot produce any empirical evidence as to the existence of God. That's kind of the opposite of why I believe what I do. Neither will I belittle your views and tell you that you're just wrong, too scared to believe in what you cannot see, touch or prove through science. I won't argue with you about this. I don't see the point.
So, I guess, you win. Congratulations. I'll just go about my daily business, having faith in something greater than myself and praying to my imaginary friend.
She thinks you're awesome, by the way.

My Failure to Find a Coat

It's not all talking and sex, you know.

Half the time, poly life is just...well, life. This weekend, whilst being filled with more Emotional Conversations(tm) and me being ill also included a shopping trip, watching more youtube clips than should legally be permitted in one evening and childcare.

The shopping trip was partially successful. I obtained a pair of jeans that do not make me look like a man! As someone with a fairly slim upper body and some pretty substantial hips, I have problems finding jeans that fit. If they fit my hips, they're often baggy around my waist. If they fit my waist, I usually struggle to get them past my thighs. So I tend to resort to what is commonly known as 'the boyfriend fit' style of jeans. They are comfortable, usually fit me, but have the downside of making me look slightly masculine. This is not something I'm averse to - I enjoy androgyny, but not every single day. At long last, I have found a pair that make it clear I do have hips! AND a waist! And legs :D
Alas, the primary purpose of the shopping trip was so I could find a winter coat that Hermit is not ashamed to be seen with me while wearing. That's a slight exaggeration. Though my love does not always appreciate my somewhat 'unique' dress sense, I don't think I've ever made him ashamed to be seen with me. Despite this, my current winter coat is an ex-German Navy officer's coat, kindly donated by my father (no, he's not the ex-German Naval officer, he's a man who likes military surplus stores). Whilst warm and perfect for the DC winter, it makes me look like a bag lady. Or a man. I wanted something smart that I could wear when we go out, or go to church. No luck :( Unlike the UK where one could conceivably wear a winter coat all year round and only get slightly too warm in August, DC has much more defined seasons which apparently affects the items of clothing on sale. There were about 10 coats that looked warm enough, all of which were either too big, too small, or just not my style. I am tempted to give up on the coat shopping as it will be spring soon, and just keep with the Naval coat for the time being.
Then I found this...which is beautiful, but pricey. And may also be too small for me but I have no tape-measure so can't tell.

Sadly, you're not getting anything more interesting tonight. I am still ill :( I spent most of Sunday asleep and can't remember a word of the conversation Hermit and I had on Sunday morning before he, Minx and the child went to church and I went back to bed.

Oh, I did make delicious brownie and delicious soup today :D In terms of culinary experiences, today has been a good one!

So You're a Christian? That's...Interesting.

I get the feeling (correct me if I'm wrong) that polyamorous Christians are something of a rarity. I'm not talking about the Mormon God-says-I-should-have-5-wives variety, of which there are a few. That is something else entirely and something that I'm not sure I agree with. I mean those who have relationships in which all partners have an equal say. This gets sticky when you come to secondary and tertiary relationships, but my point is that they are not relationships centered around the male controlling or dominating the relationship dynamic. I would argue that even M/S* relationships are 'equal' - you have to actively give your autonomy over to another person in order to be controlled so completely. And all things being equal, there are negotiated boundaries, rules, safewords* etc which make this an equal power exchange rather than a forced power removal. But I think that's a post for another time.

My point (lost in there somewhere) is that there are few Christians who practice polyamory, as I define it. The majority of the community seems to be a mix of atheist, Pagan, Buddhist and those with varying spiritual beliefs. Is Christianity so incompatible with this lifestyle/sexuality? Obviously, as a Christian, I don't believe so. But I do think that there is such an emphasis (implicit or otherwise) on conforming to the norm which is perpetuated through churches and religious upbringings that living an alternative life seems challenging and alien, if not downright impossible. Alternative people can find themselves cast out of their church, disowned by their families and stigmatised for simply living and loving differently. 

I believe there is a fundamental incompatibility between this behaviour and the teachings of the New Testament (Old is a bit different). I've always understood the main goal of Christians is to be more like Christ. I don't think that's an overly-controversial statement and I think a fair few Christians would agree with me on that, even if they have issue with my choices. I'm also fairly sure that Christ was fairly big on love and acceptance, even for those outcasts in society. Say, like whores and lepers? So, if Christ were physically present here and now, do you really think He'd turn away from people who were loving (physically, romantically, whatever) more than one person, where all parties were fully aware and consenting? I don't think so.

If He would, then I'm in the wrong religion.

Terminology:
M/S - Master/Slave. A form of BDSM relationship in which one person gives over all autonomy to the other.
Safewords - Employed within the BDSM community between people who play together, whether casually or as part of a committed relationship. Used by the submissive to signal discomfort, distress, and a desire to stop. When someone safewords, you stop what you're doing immediately. Doing otherwise gives you a very bad reputation and may lead to being barred from certain clubs.